The South Caucasus and democracy, oil and corruption, conflicts and totalitarian regimes. These are some of the topics mentioned by Azerbaijan publicist and writer Seymur Baijan in the exclusive interview for newcaucasus.com.
– How would you describe the present internal situation in Azerbaijan?
– I am often asked this question at various international conferences, and, I always find it difficult to give an answer to what the present situation in Azerbaijan is like. I am afraid of this question. What is the reason? It’s just that the situation is DIFFERENT in Azerbaijan… The government of Azerbaijan is in possession of huge money and it’s not a secret for anyone. That is why being in opposition is very difficult in Azerbaijan. The Azeri authorities simply buy out European funds and, we may say, the ambassadors of various countries are having rest like tourists. For instance, the former US Ambassador, Stanley Escudero, is now a member of the governmental party “Eni Azerbaijan”! He runs business successfully. It is quite hard to imagine something like this in any other country. It is a tough job to do to resist the financial resources of the government and to stay in the opposition in Azerbaijan.
I am sure that Azeri opposition is the strongest one in the post Soviet area. I do respect our opposition. It’s hard to explain what it really means to be in opposition in Azerbaijan. Our opposition members have been abused, arrested, humiliated, as well as all their relatives have, even those ones who had nothing to do with the opposition, and more, lost their jobs… And yet, they have not surrendered and keep on fighting against the regime.
Although the Azeri expressed themselves in 2003 and 2005, they still need a strong support from outside. The oil was a factor which prevented the revolution… Many ambassadors, international funds and foreign invigilators got their share from Baku and shrugged off the democracy. The only exceptions were – the former Norwegian Ambassador, Steynar Gil, and a member of the EU Parliamentary Assembly, Andreas Gross. The two could resist those huge amounts of money offered, stayed loyal to their ideals and principles. Their actions deserve respect.
The President, Ilham Aliev, wanted to solve the problem of the opposition and free Mass Media before 2010. He wanted to turn Azerbaijan into Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan or Kazakhstan. However, he did not manage it all. First of all, there is a strong publicism in Azerbaijan, considering the fact that the majority of all popular and mostly-read issues and publicists are in opposition to the government. They have also suffered a lot, but they did not surrender. Even after all that, they managed to raise the nation’s spirits and prepare it for the changes.
Secondly, even at the very beginning of the last century a democratic republic was established in Azerbaijan. But that does not matter, it all was due to the collapse of the Empire or it was a history present. It was a republic where women had the right to vote. I’m afraid of seeming as a rhetorician, but it was the first democratic republic in the Islamic world. I would like to say that there is a certain tradition of democracy in Azerbaijan. And, indeed, this tradition will not let anyone turn Azerbaijan into Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan or Kazakhstan. There are some values: people who are not on sale, who cannot be bribed for no money. Oil is not be all and end all, after all.
The Authorities of Azerbaijan are in a very poor condition now. No one reads pro-governmental press; the only read is oppositional one. There are no unbiased television broadcasters, but no one really watches the existing ones. The people prefer watching Russian and Turkish Media, which is not of any aid to the government.
The people are striving for changes. We’re having the Parliamentary elections coming soon. The political life in Azerbaijan started moving in a different route after a well-known publication made by the Washington Post. Ilham Aliev’s rating has been plummeting recently. I think that there will be room for collisions this fall. The people’s dissatisfaction is dramatically increasing.
– Russia keeps on considering the South Caucasus zone of its influence and undertakes all means to restore its influence. Thus, President Medvedev does not exclude a chance of Kyrgyz actions taking place in other countries. Do you think Moscow will manage this?
– This is a very tough question. I really love Russian literature, Russia herself. There’s only one thing I can say – the present Putin regime is a shame for the people of Russia. Therefore, Georgia is set as an example of an alternative to Putin’s regime. If Georgian Government happened to be an irritation for Azeri authorities, I can imagine how difficult it is for Russia to put up with what is going on in Georgia. They cannot even put up with an idea of how much Valeria Novodvorskaya was narrating about Georgia in the interview for the “Ekho Moskvy” Radio. Talks about Georgian police not accepting bribes, the translucence of the Police Departments, so that everyone could see what happens inside. She says that there are no ‘thieves in law’ left in Georgia, and the last one is in a monastery now. Or, for instance, let’s take an interview to The Commersant with Georgia’s Minister of Internal Affairs, Vano Merabishvili. This is also an attempt to represent Georgia in the light of what it has become… Isn’t it wonderful to be able to set a good example to others?
Remember Goncharov’s brilliant work Oblomov. Remember the episode when Zakhar, a servant, tells his master that there are others, who act, work while Oblomov spend all his time at home doing nothing. These words almost destroy Oblomov. Zakhar tries to tidy up the house, but Oblomov does not let him pretending to be allergic to dust. For us ‘the others’ is Georgia.
And now put yourself in Putin’s position. Imagine how difficult it is for him to bear it. I am not saying that the Georgians are angels. Of course, the Georgians have their own complexes and lacks. It’s just that present-day Georgia is needed by all, or to be more precise, by those ones who would like to live in a normal state. Personally, I am very pleased that five thousand Azeri youngsters celebrated New Year’s Holiday in Georgia. Considering the fact that they could see the absence of ‘GAI’ (State Road Inspection), and that the police can do without bribes. I hope that this year more Azeri will spend their holidays in Georgia. The more, the better, besides we need witnesses.
– How does Georgia look like from Azerbaijan perspective?
– When the Rose Revolution took place in Georgia in 2003, we all were worried and happy at the same time. We were happy because something like this should have happened in our country. The people of Azerbaijan went out into the streets to express their dissatisfaction in 2003, but those peaceful demonstrations were harshly broken up. And it all was observed by the world society… And the representatives of that society got their share and neglected democracy. That time was a period of a great depression for us.
After the Revolution in Georgia we started feeling a bit at ease. We were realizing that the Rose Revolution would play its role on us as well one day. So it did, Georgia has become a sort of oxygen bag for us. Alas, our other neighboring countries, Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan, are very much like the government of Azerbaijan. It’s very well-know what is taking place in Dagestan. I would like to say nothing about Iran at all. There is only Georgia left.
A lot of people in Azerbaijan are afraid of expressing their opinions, constantly repeating that corruption and bribery are in our blood, that there’s no possible chance to change us, that were are meant to be like that. However, Georgia has proved us wrong. We say that when Shevardnadze was in office the level of corruption was much higher than in Azerbaijan now. But now there is no corruption in Georgia at all. Therefore, the situation can and must change in Azerbaijan as well. Georgia is our neighbor; at first a lot of citizens of Azerbaijan were astonished by the fact that there was no ‘GAI’ (State Road Inspection) and that the police stopped accepting any bribes. Isn’t it enough for us? Since there is not even single institution, sphere where bribes are tabooed; where bribes ‘would not do’. Mikhail Saakashvili proved the justice of one wise Oriental saying – ‘There is no bad time, there is a bad sultan’.
– You often visit Tbilisi…
– Yes, indeed, I do often visit Tbilisi attending various conferences, seminars or merely make a visit if I have a chance to. I feel very free in Tbilisi. Cozy. Tbilisi is my town.
What I like about Tbilisi? First of all, George Bush Street and Heydar Aliev’s bust. You can understand Saakashvili’s thriving to provide the country with gas. He has to make certain gestures which contradict his principles. But not to this extent! Although his tricks to get gas and oil sometimes look upsetting if you look at them from Baku, the general atmosphere in Georgia is a gesture against the government of Azerbaijan.
To be honest, I don’t really like the fact that religion in Georgia has become a fad. I do understand when people start crossing themselves passing a church, but when they do it in front of icons displayed in a shop window, seems a bit weird. I think that being passionate about religious fad is a sign of danger. The Georgian intellectuals should start reconsidering it. It’s about time…
– You have been to many regions of Armenia. What do you think are the possibilities of Nagorno-Karabakh conflict resolution?
– My last visit to Armenia was in the end of February this year. This time I have made a final conclusion for myself – there is a problem with authorities in Azerbaijan, and there are problems with history and mentality in Armenia. Armenians are ancient people, actually. And yet nowadays their antiquity and history interfere with their livelihood. It’s hard to say would I be thinking the same if I were born in Armenia. There is a strong propaganda in Armenia. And not everyone there realizes what is going on elsewhere in the world. They do not realize that there are other nations with their pluses and minuses.
We will be able to solve many issues upon the change of the government in our country. We are ready for this; we have got a proper basis. There is wonderful, educated and honest youth. We managed to create and preserve it. Create a new generation. However, let’s get back to your question.
Someone at one of the conferences in Yerevan claimed that Nagorno-Karabakh conflict resolution is impossible due to the presidents of both Armenia and Azerbaijan are illegitimate. I totally agree with it – the governments of both Armenia and Azerbaijan are very much alike. The both sides set a ‘status quo’, and the military rhetoric of Baku and Yerevan is designated for internal consumption only. I have noticed that as soon as the oppositions in either Azerbaijan or Armenia start taking active measures, the fire seizure regime is immediately violated in the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict zone. The Nagorno-Karabakh theme is vital for ‘nation unification’ and for outer enemy, and against the opposition. As the people start fighting for their rights, the old record starts being rotated – we have got a common enemy and we need to unite.
The traditions of the Soviet violence against younger conscripts in the army still persist in the Military Forces of both countries. A soldier is slaughtered and an Armenian sniper is one to be blamed. Or vice versa – an Azeri sniper to be blamed.
The governments of both Azerbaijan and Armenia loath Georgia, since the new system in Georgia is a challenge to their own outrageous reign. I get a pleasure when the opposition starts acting in Armenia since there not only hatred between Azeri and Armenian people. If changes take place in Armenia, they will definitely take place in Azerbaijan too – whether due to hatred or envy… Perhaps that’s why I want changes for Armenia more than Levon Ter-Petrosyan. We also need them. Let’s see which will be the first nation to undergo changes.
– In your opinion, what were the errors Georgia made in Abkhazia and South Ossetia conflict resolutions?
– There might have been some. However, the present-day situation is rather different. I have been to Abkhazia and South Ossetia too. My friends live there. But I will speak directly – I do not like separatists. The developments happen only in the places where democracy exists. And, democracy cannot develop under conditions of separatism. What can I tell Georgia? Hold on for three more years and everything is going to be alright.
Irakli Chikhladze, for newcaucasus.com
